[Podcast] 'Inbound & Down' S07 E17: Running a Startup ft. AustrianStartup's Markus Raunig

Sage Levene

Sage Levene
Published January 21, 2021

Inbound & Down Podcast- Purple text that says Season 07 Episode 17 Running a Startup with AustrianStartups Markus Raunig with a photo of Markus Raunig

On this episode of 'Inbound & Down,' host Jon Sasala chats with Markus Raunig, managing director at AustrianStartups.

 

Jon and Markus discuss the startup culture in Austria/globally and how the startup landscape is changing in the hands of driven people. Plus, Markus shares some tips on growing your business!

You can find Markus Raunig on LinkedIn and online at austrianstartups.com.

Show Notes:

Do you have questions about startups? Send them to inbound@moreycreative.com.

Read the episode transcript below.

Sage Levene: Is your website ADA compliant? If not, you're at a risk of a costly, time-consuming lawsuit and your website may be inaccessible to over 25% of the population. Start your compliance journey today with AudioEye. AudioEye is affordable, easy to install, secure and sustainable. Visit audioeye.com for more. That's audioeye.com. 

Brian Halligan: This is Brian Halligan and you're listening to Inbound & Down from Morey Creative Studios.

SL: Welcome to Inbound & Down: The Art and Science of Inbound Marketing with Jon Sasala, President of Morey Creative Studios. 

Hey, it's Sage here. Today's guest is Markus Raunig, managing director at AustrianStartups, an independent non-profit platform for innovative entrepreneurship in Austria. Jon and Markus discussed the startup culture in Austria/globally and how the startup landscape is changing in the hands of driven people. Plus, Markus shares some tips on growing your business. This was a really fun episode. I can't wait for you to hear from Markus. Okay, here we go!

Jon Sasala: Okay. Thank you so much for joining us today, Markus. Before we get started, for our audience, I'd really like if you could start by describing what AustrianStartups is. And really start from the beginning. Can you tell me about the actual startup of AustrianStartups, where you came from, where the concept came from and kind of how it's evolved?

Markus Raunig: Sure. It's a pleasure to be here. AustrianStartups is now nearly eight years old, so it was very much a grassroots initiative. So, there were a few people who did something in the startup space eight years ago, they came together and said, look, Austria is not where it should be in this field, we're left behind. We need to accelerate here. We need to get more things going, and we can only do that together. And that's pretty much how AustrianStartups was founded as a non-profit organization from the community, for the community, with the aim of making startups from Austria more visible and create a better ecosystem, a better environment in general, in Austria for them.

JS: So, did you say that was 2008?

MR: No, eight years ago. So, 2013 actually.

JS: Okay. So, you said 2013. Back then, were there a handful of startups that were finding wild success and saying, “Hey, why aren't there more companies coming out of Austria?” Can you name the specific companies? Do you remember who they were?

MR: Sure. I mean back then, maybe they weren't so successful yet, but they have become successful in the meantime. I think Runtastic is one of those that later has been bought by Adidas. Also Shpock, which is in Europe a really big mobile commerce platform, several others, like Wikifolio, for example. 

There were a few startups back then, which were quite small still, but nowadays are really big startups. And those have obviously pushed us a lot and have pushed the ecosystem in general, because you need some kind of role models. You need some kind of success stories and they have provided those.

JS: So, were you in the business world at the time, maybe starting your own startup or was AustrianStartups kind of your baby and the way that you just kind of strong all these other people, these entrepreneurs together?

MR: Well, I'm actually not a founder of AustrianStartups, to be honest. I'm just a managing director but I was in the field of startups back then already, I was at Pioneer’s Festival, which is the biggest startup conference we had in Austria and was responsible for the big startup competition there, which was my entry point to the startup scene. Back there I could actually engage with quite a few really successful startups, internationally who have come to the competition, several of them joining Y Combinator afterwards and it really gave me a good intro. 

Afterwards I had my own startup for one and a half years and was then actually hired by AustrianStartups out of my own startup, which was quite a difficult decision. But in general, I just had the feeling that I had before, already a background in nonprofit management. And I felt like AustrianStartups was really something that could grow quite a lot still. And I saw that potential and that's why it was quite attractive and we clicked right away.

JS: Yeah. It sounds like a perfect match for the experience that you had to that point and you know, kind of where you were. And listen, with startups, yes, we all have huge aspirations for them. We want to see our companies grow and become the next big thing, but there are a lot of them and sometimes they're just stepping stones and jumping off points and you need to be willing to kill your darlings as they say, and pivot and recognize opportunities. Otherwise, you're not going to be successful. 

So, I applaud you for having that opportunity to put in front of you. When you speak about AustrianStartups and who they service, is it specific to the Austrian market or is it for our audience who is primarily based in the United States? Do you service companies outside of Austria?

MR: In general, yes. I mean, our main aim as a nonprofit association is to push entrepreneurship in Austria, but the tools we use for that inspirational value, the research, the now often digital events, they are open for everyone and they are used by everyone. So our main language, everything we do is English. We do have quite a big international audience and a really strong audience also when it comes to experts that are living in Austria. It was also a key factor why we then co-founded the European startup organization, also the European startup network, where I'm also a board member and also have quite strong exchange with several other startup organizations from Europe.

JS: So, going back to the fact that your events are conducted in English, was that a hard decision to make, or is English just as commonly accepted as German is there in Austria?

MR: In the startup scene? It is. And that was why it was quite straightforward. For many of our core startups that we've worked with from the beginning, many of their employees were international. Their corporate language was English from the beginning. So that's why it was clear that we would also speak English but overall, in Austria, that's still quite a challenge. So especially on the level of bureaucracy of the level of public actors, this is not very common yet. And it's also one of our stronger commendations for political decision-makers to accept English as a formal language on more levels. Because for example, it's not always accepted to write a grant proposal in English. So, for some that works, but not for everyone. So, we really want to make sure that that always works.

JS: Yeah, it makes sense. So, when we talk about who you're servicing. What type of people come to AustrianStartups and can really benefit—you know who is this really built for?

MR: It's super broad. It's really for someone who has just heard of startups who just thought, “Hey, actually, maybe I want to do something. Maybe I want to take matters into my own hand. Maybe I want to start seeing problems as opportunities and we are a first point of contact for such people.”

We try to give them the first steps into the ecosystem and help them also find their way in the community. And at the same time, we obviously are quite close in contact with those who are actively working on startup ideas. We are working with those that have just been founded and are looking for investments. But we also work with the big ones out there who we facilitate exchanges between them. We have for example, a growth stage breakfast, where we connect some of the most successful startups in Austria to also—for them to have in some way, a room where they can exchange about their challenges

JS: With people who—I think the way that you phrased it was—see problems as opportunities or challenges as opportunities. So that's, “I have a concept, I see a problem and I have a concept.” But I've also heard you speak about people who don't necessarily have a concept yet, they don't recognize an opportunity, but there's just a hunger inside of them. There's a drive inside of them and they say, “I know I don't want to work just behind a desk somewhere. I want to do something impactful, I want to do it, but I don't know what.”

And when I heard you speak about that, I'm like, I really, I can't imagine. I can't wrap my mind around somebody going down that path or there being a substantial amount of people like that. Prepping for this episode here, Sage, the producer of our show, and I were talking and she was like, you'd be surprised. There are people that want to have a positive impact on the world, but don't have the problem in front of them. They're just waiting for someone to say, “Hey, we need someone to build this.” And they have the technical expertise, the drive, the skillset to actually make it happen. They just don't have that spark, that idea yet. Can you speak to that? Do you see an audience of people that want to make change, but don't know what yet?

MR: Yes. We actually see that a lot with young people coming out of universities, coming out of schools at the moment, exactly what you described. They are driven by purpose, they want to have an impact in this world, but they lack the scope yet. They lack the necessary tools to work out where they could apply that. And the more traditional job market is not really coming up to their needs, I would say, because obviously you need a lot of years to actually come into a position where you can feel that impact. 

Often at the beginning, you have very administrative, repetitive little tasks and people are underwhelmed by that. And they're looking for an invitation in that field. And we see that often that people also identify entrepreneurship as a potential way to go here, but they can't figure out how to produce ideas. They are waiting for this brilliant idea to just fall off the sky and somehow have imagination and they are waiting for that to happen. And many of them wait far too long, and don't actually realize that recognizing opportunities, it's a skill, it's a muscle that you have to train. And that's also one of our key missions with AustrianStartups that we want to help people train that muscle.

JS: So, I'm trying to think of the resources you might provide a person like this, somebody who again, has a drive and has a want, but doesn't know exactly what they should be doing and where they should be doing it. Do you guys just have a rolling Google doc that has like a whole list of problems and you're just waiting for people to come and be like, “Hey, I'm looking for a problem to solve. What do you have?”

MR: That's actually a good idea. We don't have that but I might take that with me. [Laughing] What we are doing in this field is, we try to talk about it. So, we, for example, have a German speaking podcast where we talk a lot about the problems that we encounter and how those could be solved. We have a newsletter that's in English, where we also try to give some kind of inspiration to people. What are the problems out there? Where are people struggling currently? How could things be changed? 

And we are trying to bring people together who in some way could inspire each other. So, we have, for example, started a program called the entrepreneurial leadership program, which is a group of 20 handpicked people at exactly that stage, who we try to bring together, who we try to connect with each other, but also give them a room with workshops—we call it thinkers labs. It's in some way, a think tank setting, where we talk about challenges in the world. So, we try to, in some way, confront them with other people, other mindsets, other perspectives that might make them get to that level where they see opportunities in there too.

JS: So, this is listing the resources. These are the things people can get by leveraging AustrianStartups. You mentioned your newsletter that seems inspiring and impactful. If not just to continually remind people that there are opportunities out there. Even if I can't act on it right now. I just had a child and maybe I just bought a home and I'm comfortable in my job, but I know I have aspirations. Let me subscribe today. Let me keep an eye on this newsletter. Let me keep an eye on maybe the opportunities that you're presenting and the inspirational content that you're providing. 

Then you said, there's, was it like workshops, webinars, where you get people together in a virtual scene, I'm assuming more and more now, almost exclusively now. Are those recurring events where in the newsletter get notified every once a month or whatever it might be?

MR: Yeah. I mean, we have open events, for example, the AustrianStartups Stammtisch, which is our big monthly event. And it's completely open. It's for everyone who is interested in it, it's free.

JS: Was that, “Stammtisch?”

MR: Yeah. It's an Austrian word for a group of people who come together, always at the same table at the same time, mostly I think usually in some kind of restaurant on a weekly basis. And that's how actually this event started eight years ago. That was just a few people who did something and Austria, and then it grew and grew. And nowadays it's not really a Stammtisch anymore. It's more like a general, it's a panel discussion. We have 100 to 200 guests usually, and it's more of a classic conference like event. But this exists still and it's open and this is also an opportunity for everyone out there to get connected with other people and get inspired.

On the other hand, we also have a more closed setting, which is this entrepreneurial leadership program. This is really, you can apply for that twice per year and it runs then for one year. And there you'll get a very streamlined experience where we try to prepare you for life in the entrepreneurial ecosystem, try to prepare you to actually become an entrepreneur or work in a startup or work in the ecosystem that goes around all these startups. So that's pretty much more of a closed setting, but we have both.

JS: So that closed setting, once a year—much more thought gets put into the curriculum and who's speaking and the agenda. Would you consider it a conference?

MR: The conference I think is something that has been in our mind quite a lot, because we had in Austria, this Pioneers Festival where my journey started and it stopped existing. They don't exist anymore like that. So, for sure, there's some kind of hole to fill. So, we are constantly thinking, talking about one day, maybe creating a conference for the ecosystem here. We actually had that planned for this autumn and Corona came by. Hopefully next year is a realistic target for that.

JS: Yeah. You know, clearly drawing on your experience and your history, this is something that you would likely explore. But the interesting thing right now with the way that we've been able to respond to COVID quarantining and how businesses have evolved, the way that we communicate with each other has evolved. So will things like that conference. That conference will never be the same potentially, we might not do things the same way. So, this is AustrianStartups opportunity to maybe redefine what a conference is for the startup community.

MR: 100% agree. And to a certain extent, we might have seen that already happen in the last year, because what also happened as part of Corona is that back in spring, when it was really the first big lockdown where everybody was completely shocked, but a situation and at home, we took that opportunity to organize something called hack the crisis, where we brought together in a virtual setting, people from all over Austria, but also internationally, there were people actually taking part from all over the world. 

More than 700 people in the end participated, actually contributing to challenges that public actors provided. So, we actually went to the ministries and asked them, “Okay, what are you currently struggling with? How can the startup community help develop solutions?” And this hackathon setting and a virtual arena worked surprisingly well. And it's definitely something that we also want to build on. So, this is something not just now in the crisis setting, but in general, bringing people together to work on challenges that we have on a society level, that's something where I believe there's still a lot of potential.

JS: So, growing that community, we've spoken about who you could service. You know, these might be young people. These might be inspired people that are just looking to start a business, but you also need resources to advise to point people in the right direction to act as mentors. 

Can you describe who is in this community? Who participates in a hackathon like that? Who is on maybe your board internally? Or who do people have access to when they come and look for help from AustrianStartups?

MR: There's all kinds of different levels here. On the one hand, there's loose structures, simply people who are part of our community and who appear at Stammtisch and who appear at our events and just drop by and share their experiences from years in a startup. So, there's this loose context, but for sure, there's also a more structured level. So, for example, we have an advisory board that we are currently also in process of actually enlarging and creating different levels also within this advisory board. But also, there we have, Austria's probably most famous investor. The most famous VC with some of the most successful entrepreneurs. They are in there and advising us how to create better products, how to create better services coming out there.

On the other hand, we also act as some kind of umbrella for the whole ecosystem. So, AustrianStartups is funded by supporting members. The supporting members are mostly companies, initiatives, organizations who are providing services themselves in the ecosystem. And with them, we have a really close connection and we try to connect them with each other, but also, we try to involve them in many of our activities because it's not our goal to do something that's already out there. If there's already seven organizations who do very good advice for startups in the area of fundraising, we don't need to do that anymore. That's not really necessary. So, we try to fill the gaps and we try to work together with what's out there.

JS: So, you described getting support from these sponsors essentially, people who believe in your mission and want to help push you guys in the right direction. Does that mean for everybody else, for the users, for the people subscribing, for the people who come to your events for the most part—you want to go to a Stammtisch, it's free, these are free open public events? And the way that you're financially supported is from businesses, institutions that just really want to help push you in the right direction.

MR: Yes, exactly like that.

JS: So, what types of businesses do you have as supporters right now?

MR: Super broad. It ranges from very small service providers that are specialized in the area of startups, so that might be tax advisors or lawyers to VCs in the startup scene, to national large corporations Austria's largest bank or Austria's largest telecommunications provider. They're all our sponsors, but also some international ones. So, for example, Google is also one of our sponsors. So, everyone who has touchpoints to the field of startups to the field of entrepreneurship who wants to support entrepreneurship in Austria, all of them are pretty much on board with us.

JS: And in exchange for that investment, they're really getting in front of people that could be perfect for them to work with. So, for example a tax advisor, maybe it's a tax advisor that specializes in supporting small businesses or growth businesses. And by supporting your events, supporting the website, supporting you guys as a company that then maybe gets them speaking opportunities, or the ability to present their message. 

Do you have them presented in the newsletters? Like what would a sponsor get? And we obviously, you want to maintain the integrity of the content you're delivering, right. And you're not going to skew it based on who's willing to support you. So, could you speak to that as well?

MR: Yeah, no, very good point. I think you need to be transparent about what's advertisement and what's our own content. And that's, for example, why we have in our newsletter at the bottom, we have a section which says news from our supporting members and there you see some kind of opportunities that our sponsors offer, but for sure, we also look for—yeah, there needs to be a fit. If someone wants to become a supporting member who doesn't have anything to offer, that's interesting for startups or doesn't, where we got the feeling that in the end, they don't want to support our mission really, but have some other motives, then we usually don't do that. 

But in the end, you also see that the interests and the background of our supporting members is quite diverse. There are some who really just say, we just want to support what you do. We don't need any of the sponsor section news or whatever. Just do what you do. We want to support it. And others very much are driven by, they want to position themselves for startups. They want to use those opportunities also. So there you'll see differences,

JS: Every organization—regardless nonprofit or if you're a for-profit or organization—needs to grow in some capacity. And when you look at the three different segments that you have in front of you, the people who want to participate, start businesses, leverage your resources. So that's one group, the people that can help support those businesses, maybe the resource providers and then the sponsors. How do you grow each of those, which of those are important to grow? And what do you guys do internally there for marketing purposes? How do you grow as a company?

MR: First, the key asset is the people who want to start something, we believe that's where it starts and with that, everything else grows. And this is also the key vision of AustrianStartups is to make entrepreneurship as common as skiing in Austria, because that's what we are known for Austria. If you look at the Olympics and so on, if there's a ski race on, the chances are high that actually an Austrian is going to win that one. 

So, what we do with our fields, we put them on top of mountains and then we push them down and they fall because that's what you do at the beginning, but it doesn't hurt because they're still little, they don't fall far. And then in school you have skiing courses and so on. So, we always tried to push the national identification also in terms of entrepreneurship. And we believed that with that, this is good for Austria as a country, but this is obviously also good for us as an organization because the more we have in this area, the bigger the whole industry becomes. The more interesting that the industry becomes and the more professional industry also becomes, the more money will flow into this industry and the easier it will also get for us to grow. So, for me, my focus is very much on what we want to do.

JS: So, your mission, really your mission primarily is to grow that, to inspire the people of Austria and the people of the world to be entrepreneurs, to do impactful things. But how do you grow that? How do you get the message out there? You know, Inbound & Down as a show, we really talk about inbound marketing, our shop. We focus on producing content. It's a lot of organic work, trying to generate leads for our customers and that's our model, but there are many different ways that you can grow awareness. Like you're on a podcast right now. This is an example of how you can grow your awareness. Are there other things that you're doing for AustrianStartups to get in front of people?

MR: So, you mentioned a podcast. The podcast was super interesting for us because we started at a bit more than a year ago. And it's quickly become one of the leading tech podcasts in Austria. And it has also really helped us to influence decision-making on a political level. So, we really felt that people were listening, that we're making decisions and we can reach them on a conversational level that otherwise was always difficult. In some way, podcasts have the opportunity to get a really deep level of conversation with your listeners. It's one way, most of the time, but people get the feeling that they talked with you for a long time, and you can properly explain things and properly go deep on level. So that for us was a key factor in our growth last year, the podcast that we started there. 

Second, what was always one of the key pillars for us was public relations, PR. If there is some kind of expertise about startups, about entrepreneurship in Austria it's obviously our goal that we are asked there and that we provide the expertise and that we provide the numbers too. And for that one key factor for us was the Austrian Startup Monitor, which is the biggest study about startups in Austria. Started that three years ago together with a big research institution and a university where we make a big question and with startups and, every year we publish a report and with that, we get a lot of press. 

In a similar way we also published something called the Austrian Startup Agenda, which is our paper of recommendations, our visionary paper for the future of Austria. It's 37 recommendations about what the Austrian government should do to promote entrepreneurship and 18 of these 37 recommendations were put in the government program recently again, that's helped us get some positive press. And on the other hand, we launched a newsletter some time ago. 

Before it was very much just opportunities, just what's happening in the Austrian startup ecosystem and we opened that up. We made it more general. We tried to still obviously focus on entrepreneurship, but very much also give more inspiration and content to actually share things that we are reading, that we found inspiring, insightful, helpful, and provide that to our readers. And we saw how the engagement rates clearly went up from a newsletter that was focused. What are the coolest events, what are the interesting developments in Austria, to really inspiring and insightful articles from around the world too. 

Probably the core basis of the initial growth of AustrianStartups was social. We built quite a large Facebook page when it was still rather easy to build such large pages and that fueled lots of the growth we had in other areas because it gave us credibility on the political level. But it also gave us some kind of leverage with sponsors that actually, if they can share a post of them on such a big channel, it's super useful. 

On that level a lot of the early growth was built. Nowadays, especially Facebook, you really feel that there's not much happening anymore. What we are now experimenting a lot with is actually producing videos. So, for YouTube, for Instagram Reels, or TikTok even, we tried to in some way create some engaging content. It's still early for us. We're trying around here, but we see some potential here and we see that the engagement rates for a produced video, especially on LinkedIn are quite promising.

JS: I want to jump back to the newsletter that being a driver and kind of how you saw an improvement when you made some changes, when you made that a little bit more general, first of all, how often are you sending the newsletter?

MR: It was actually—before we had two different newsletters. We had one community newsletter once per month and then an event newsletter that we sent twice per month.

JS: And how substantial you know; I don't need specific numbers. I don't need you to tell me how many subscribers you have or what your open rates are. But how substantial, what percentage of your success and your impact would you equate to your newsletter? It just sounds to me like it's a really important part of the equation.

MR: I mean, what I love about the newsletter is that there is no algorithm limiting your reach. If you have people on your newsletter list, then obviously there is a percentage that might not open it, but in generally, there's no one who can cut away the reach you have there. That's why it was a super important constant for us because all the other elements in this field, they were constantly changing. And we constantly had the feeling, okay, we have 23,000 Facebook followers, but we are only reaching 2000 per post. That's not a worry for the newsletter. We have a bit more than 5,000 newsletter subscribers. And with them, we had for a long-time constant reach or constant opening rates. And then when we changed the format a bit, we actually got high opening rates and higher click rates also. That was encouraging to see that here we are not dependent on someone else.

JS: I think the reason that I assume that your newsletter should be, or could be one of the more impactful assets that you have as an organization is because, you know, like I said before now might not be the right time for me to pursue this, but I still might have a hunger and I do want to be involved. That newsletter is going to keep me reminded that you're my resource for that when I am ready.

We had a guest on Inbound & Down a few episodes ago named Phoebe Bane from Morning Brew. She's from Marketing Brew, which is a division of Morning Brew. Are you familiar with Morning Brew?

MR: Yes, I'm a subscriber even.

JS: You know, I just feel like it's a perfect business model for the community that you're speaking to—a. the gamification of it, and b. seeing a newsletter as the primary driver of delivering information on—for them, it's a daily basis—for you it could still be a monthly basis, but that gamification is what's key. Forward this to somebody who you think would like to subscribe and we'll reward you. We'll keep track of it. And I can see that being one of those driving forces, or when you have your live events, bring a guest, somebody that you think would be interested in the type of content that we're delivering. And if you bring, you know, at least one person, we send you an AustrianStartups sticker or something like that in a way to just kind of incentivize people to grow this community and love this community and promote this community

MR: 100% agree. And, Morning Brew is a great example of  just a great way to stay engaged. Maybe if it's not even at the moment relevant right now, but you just get that reminder. And that's why also we changed the newsletter from monthly to weekly. We want to, in some way, create more of a habit also there for people to have a weekly reminder to. Maybe think about problems they could solve to not just have this once-a-month contact. Where also the chance that you hit a moment in time where people have no time and just archive it, or just delete it, you know, we all know how we deal with our inboxes. And by putting those two newsletters, we had together in one, but increasing it to once per week, we feel like we have a bigger chance that at least every second week, we get someone at the moment in time where they are so interested to read them, then also willing to get inspired in that sense.

JS: Yeah. Beautiful. The audience that you're speaking to, I'm assuming that it is primarily Austrian and we noticed something here at Inbound & Down, we produce a show in the United States. It's about working in the HubSpot platform, which initially was a United States based company. It has now expanded internationally, but our audience is primarily people who live in the States. We've seen though a huge uptick in attention from Austria. Is there something about the Austrian people that makes this a passion, that makes marketing, entrepreneurship—is there a hunger that you see around you that could attribute to why we're so successful over there as well?

MR: It's a super interesting question. I mean, we have quite a few companies here with SaaS business models, and I think that could contribute to that because I feel that, especially inbound marketing and so on, where you're looking also for leads through that, I think that could definitely fuel the fire here. 

On the other hand, also, we have probably a few companies who focus on a marketing tech course or  ad tech, for example, Adverity is quite a big one we have here. So, it might also be that, you know, always around the champions of companies, you create literal ecosystems. Also where lots of employees obviously are in this field, but also these employees then might start their own companies or they might inspire others. So, I think that could also be a factor in the fields of ad tech, marketing tech. That might be also something that's growing in Austria at the moment.

JS: Well, we love it. We love that we're supported by your country. We love that you're supporting your country the way that you are. It seems incredible. Before we wrap up here, Markus, is there anywhere—like what's the action item? Is there anywhere we can point people where they can go and get involved? Obviously, it's going to be subscribing to the newsletter. But you know what, what's the next step for folks?

MR: Yes. You touched the newsletter, I think that's the ideal starting point because in the newsletter, we also talk about all the other things that we are doing, especially now with the pandemic and how it's going. Most of our events are online and most of our events are engaged. 

So, this is definitely also an opportunity that you might want to check out. Join us for one of our Stammtisch. It is an international audience most of the time. So, it's going to be a great snapshot of what's happening here in the center of Europe, and might give you a good insight also about entrepreneurship in Europe.

JS: Well, I'll tell you what I will be at the next Stammtisch, you can see me there in the audience and you know, Markus, I really appreciate you spending this time with us. I look forward to speaking with you again.

MR: Thanks for the invitation.

SL: Thanks for listening to this episode of Inbound & Down. If you like the podcast, please rate us, review and subscribe. If you have any questions or suggestions, email inbound@moreycreative.com. Follow us on social everywhere at Morey Creative and subscribe to our question of the day at moreycreative.com/qotd.



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